"his amour from the 6 years previous to me was all of 5'3" and took a man's size XXL. In short, she was a slob, both personally, in the housekeeping realm and most areas of her life."

And yet he declares his undying love for her???

I hope that you don't take this in the wrong way, but I think that you have a self esteem problem...to stay with this guy for over a year now, when his mind and heart are with someone else...are you still waiting for him to take it back, and declare his undying love for you??

"Whatever it is that he wants, I am pretty sure it isn't me." So why are you here a year later, still posting about this??

"I detest it when people just wallow." Didn't you post this?

If she fulfilled his dreams, and you aren't doing that, and he declares his undying love for her, it's time to hit the highway...there's lots of great, mature, physically and fiscally fit guys with a sense of humor who would love to date you.

You are never a bitch?? Not ever?? emotions just take over and you blurt out hostile and/or sarcastic barbs? NO?? Did she?? Maybe you are boring to him. Just a thought...

Chief Engineer posted this, somehow it was posted under a different thread:

Re: The (Real) Cost of Love
Posted: Jul 24, 2006 10:37 PM Reply


Hey Rock - I'm sure your post was well intentioned, but I think a bit harsh. It's not easy for anyone to walk out a relationship, even one with problems.

Obviously, Cinnamon thinks there is a chance to make this work, and comes here for advice, and maybe to vent a bit.

Read my post called "She's Lost Interest" and you will see a similar theme for a group of the guys who post here.

I know you will read this Cinnamon, so I just want to say that while there may be truth to what Rockhead is saying, only you can decide if it's time to walk away. In the meantime, I am happy to listen and opine. As are Texasman and Leatherneck.

Hang in there, and let us know how it's going!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Good Luck"

Chief, if Cinnamon is looking for people to be on her side and cheerlead, I'm not the guy. If someone is screwing up and you want to help them, it's best to give direct advice, instead of just saying "Hang in there" IMO.

You are right, it isn't always easy for someone to leave a relationship, even one with problems.

In my opinion, "nice guys" and "nice gals" are people who try to please others instead of realistically evaluating a situation and responding to it. And they tend not to correct a problem, or to leave a relationship, because they don't want to create waves.

Look at all of her complaints about her ex, and she was with him for a Long time.

"so I just want to say that while there may be truth to what Rockhead is saying, only you can decide if it's time to walk away." Of course she knows this, she isn't going to go home and break up with the guy because of what some guy named "Rockhead" posted on the Internet.

Hey Stan, have you had any success with your girlfriend who became a slob and didn't appear to be "the one" for you, as you posted in "Changing Her"??

Chief, I'm thinking you are 100% correct.

I just read a thread entitled "/ will I ever" and in July, 2005, 2 months after she started this thread, Cinnamon was describing her b/f as an incredible guy and was gushing about how wonderful he is...

She's just here "venting" Bit.ching, really, but it doesn't matter what label you give it..read her posts on that thread, you'll see that even after his faux pas, she believed that he was wonderful, she became a friend first and was so thankful that she had not let him slip away...

Whatever.

1) It wasn’t the XXL gf that he has declared his undying love for—it was his ex-wife of 10 years ago, who predated XXL. Try to pay attention here, lol.
2) I stayed in my marriage for 14 years because of the fact that it was a marriage (at least in the legal sense-I had no idea when I entered into it that he had a completely different agenda) and I did not want to throw it away without giving it my best shot. I tried until I just couldn’t anymore and then I gave up. Do I wish I had given up sooner? Without question. Had I waited longer before marrying him, we would never have made it to the altar as I would have packed it in before that. I could have saved myself a lot of trouble. Do I want to repeat that performance? Not particularly. Hence my, perhaps extreme, caution.

Yes, I suppose I have been dithering around here. The thing is, like Rod Stewart says, I was looking for a “reason to believe.” But I haven’t found one that worked. Who do I believe? The sober man who says he can’t live without me or the drunk one who declares his undying love for his ex-wife and cries because she left him 10 years ago? The one who is appalled at his friends for wearing wedding rings before they marry or the one who insists on introducing me as his wife when, clearly, I am not his wife and he has no intentions that way? And so on, ad infinitum. There are far too many contradictions here and it has eliminated much of the element of trust and it’s pretty hard to carry on a relationship that without it.

So I have to agree with Rockhead—he’s right. It’s time to either pi** or get off the pot and since resolving the problem is proving impossible then the only thing to do is pack up my bags and move on. It’s been long enough and I am heartily sick of the whole business.

I understand what Chief Engineer means—it’s hard to just walk away unless things are really clearcut. There are times when you believe that things can be worked out or that you really can believe in someone. But just about the time you are feeling good about the situation, something happens to yank the rug out from under you. The trick is knowing where to draw the line.

None of this makes him a bad person. He has many wonderful qualities and this was partly what prolonged the misery. But this situation doesn't work for me and so I have to face that.

Probably he does find me boring as you say. Personally, I would rather be dull than be a bitch. But I get the impression that your definition of that is somewhat different from my perception of it. I confess I am curious--what is your definition? I've seen books that claim that men love women who are like that. Is it true? I thought that that was a minority, maybe people who needed to be in constant emotional turmoil to feel alive?

Who do I believe? The sober man who says he can’t live without me or the drunk one who declares his undying love for his ex-wife and cries because she left him 10 years ago? The one who is appalled at his friends for wearing wedding rings before they marry or the one who insists on introducing me as his wife when, clearly, I am not his wife and he has no intentions that way?

Well, I'll chime in here, for what it's worth. The guy clearly (to me anyway) is a jerk. He's male, but not a man. I take an old fashion approach to manliness - if he gets drunk and talks about how he holds a torch for an old love in front of you, then he's not a man. If he slams his friends for doing something that he's doing, he's not a stand-up kind of guy.

I'd say it's time to pack your bags (or his) and get out. Life is too short to put up with being treated like crap.

Define "bitch"-that's not a question a woman asks ya everyday...willful, emotional, self centered, given to sudden, strong or violent mood swings

You know, she's not always reasoning, but she'll speak her mind anytime...

I may have to think about this one a little more.

The impression I have developed is somewhat similar to what you are saying. It is someone who is contrary, selfish, manipulative, and enjoys creating havoc and misery. I have come to the conclusion that these types of people (and sometimes they aren't obvious in their goals or manipulation) require emotional turmoil to feel alive. Personally, life itself delivers enough chaos for me and I prefer to have music, laughter and peace in my life. In truth, I am probably too much that way--I will walk away rather than fight unless I am pretty sure that there is the possibility of true negotiation.

You are correct, but don't be too hard on him. The truth is sometimes very hard for us to face, especially where it makes us look bad or where we stand to lose. Most of us have at least a few issues that we just don't [u]want[/u] to see. This is his.

How could I omit: impatient, and of course, complain, complain, complain; nothing is good enough
Or: If she sleeps with everyone, she's a slut; if she sleeps with everyone except me, she's a bitch.

So why are some guys attracted to these women? Probably because they need some "excitement" and they fell for the fairly tale that says that if he saves her from her plight, then he and she will live happily ever after...except, the plight never ends, every day there's a new one.

And one more characteristic-drama, drama, drama.

Like my wife-she never has a mild headache-every time, her head feels like it is splitting. She is never cold, always freezing; never hot, always boiling, etc. As my sister in law noted, my wife never has a cut, it's a "gash" And the trials and tribulations when she gets a splinter...

Hey, wait a minute, this means I married...no, not really, because she has the outgoing, warm, sincerely loving side, is friendly to strangers, especially old people and children, loves animals, and dotes on her parents...just happens to be a Drama Mama.

The problem is that you're not be hard enough on him. He's not stepping up to the plate and you're letting him skate on it.

I agree that we all have issues that are difficult to deal with. But having difficulties is different than ignoring those issues.

Tell him to grow some 'nads, take responsibility for himself, and be a man.

Sometimes in relationships there is a tacit understanding, he won't talk about certain issues regarding her, she, in turn, won't raise certain issues concerning him.

Maybe Cinnamon has an issue or two that he isn't raising, so she doesn't want to breach the tacit understanding by raising this issue with him.

But if it pains her so much she ought to do it, IMO.

Easy for me to say...

I have tried, more than a few times to address this issue, but without much success. I am not interested in a screaming match--not a productive thing most of the time, IMO, though sometimes they serve the purpose of clearing the air. People tend to say things that are meant to wound and though they may regret it later, once said, it just never goes away completely. So my approach is to try to talk reasonably about it and try to be constructive and try to find a solution that works for both. However, he subscribes to the "best defense is and offense" theory and when his position becomes uncomfortable and he can't defend it with reasons that aren't obviously flimsy, he resorts to getting very angry and shouting. So I have given up.

I have been apartment hunting (discouraging but not impossible) and will lay my cards on the table once I have somewhere to go.

There's nothing more maddening than someone who stays completely calm and won't even fight. X-(

It's like, what, you won't even get mad??

But people who just start yelling because they don't want to discuss something really try my patience. Suddenly, it's all about them, their emotional harangue becomes the focus, and they have 10 different reasons why you are to blame and the issue gets lost...Even if you try to fight "fair" and stick to the subject, they are off and flying on their emotional rant and there's no resolution of anything, both people feel bad later...I hate that. X-(

Best of luck, the change is gonna do you good...

You must be on the East Coast, or else you're up awfully early.