I feel like such an idiot. The latest development? Well, he is going home for a visit. But that's all I know. His attitude at Christmas was "they (his family) can all kiss my a**." His family's attitude towards me is to not acknowledge me in any way, which was one of the reasons for his attitude. Now, after a phone call from his mom, he seems to have completely changed his tune. He shared no information on the call with me, he is extremely vague about his plans other than I am not included. I don't know when he is going, or for how long. Nothing. I haven't pried much on the subject but any queries I have put forward (like the when and how long) have been met with impatience. Up til now, he has talked about all of us going and all of the things that he wanted to show us and how much the kids would enjoy it. But all that has changed. If he were more open about it, I would feel differently. But I am left to wonder what is really going on here. And yes, his wife lives in the same city. Am I over-reacting?

I certainly don't think you are overreacting! If it was a visit to family that didn't include you, that would be bad enough. But, given the fact that he won't discuss this with you, there is obviously something going on. Unfortunately, I don't have any suggestion for you on what to do about it. If it were me, I would probably pretend not to care. But i doubt that's the best course of action.

All I can do is offer my heartfelt support, and hope you will keep us posted!

I feel like an idiot because I can't find a way out of this mess. I allowed myself to become trapped and I allowed him to tie me to him in every way except marriage. This only adds to my misery. Otherwise, I would probably have walked out by now. So the way I see it, I have 2-3 months to find a solution to this part of the problem.

The fact that he has decided to retire may have precipitated some of this. If the strange behaviour escalates the closer he gets to his retirement date, then I am in for some really rough times. It's only been two weeks and the last week was decidedly weird. On top of the phone call and trip home, when I came home from work on Wednesday, he was in bed asleep. I asked the kids what was going on and they knew nothing and said that he had come in the house and gone straight upstairs without a word. I waited for a bit and then tried to wake him, but got no response. He didn't get up until the alarm went off the next morning--13 hours later. When I asked "What happened to you last night?" his response was "Not much." ???? When I simply waited, he added that he had had a few too many beer. It is totally out of character for him to do this (I've only ever seen him drunk once in 3 years) on a work day and especially then to drive home. But that was all the information I got on that subject as well. Maybe he was embarrassed but he was extremely close-mouthed about this as well. I do know that in the past he has gotten drunk when he was very upset about something. So what brought this on? I can't help but wonder.

I have given alot of thought to your thread and, like you, I wish that there was something profound that I could say that would shed some light and help solve the problem. I think that the thing is, it is different for everybody and it's hitting on that one little thing that would make the difference. What would make the difference for me would be having him simply ask me to stay. But I know if I were walking out the door, he would shrug and say "go if that's what you want." His whole attitude would be "who cares?" I can't help but wonder if that's what went wrong with his wife and why he feels so guilty about the end of the marriage. I can understand being upset at finding out that you were adopted when you believed your whole like that you were the natural child of your parents. However, as a mature adult (in theory, at least) I would think that you would want to talk it out with the person you were closest to which ought to be your husband. At least he would be a constant in your life. But I rather think that she was looking for reassurance about her place from him and threw down the gauntlet, as it were. Once thrown, she couldn't back down when he didn't respond the way she had hoped. I guess the trick is to know when to act like you don't care and when to show that you do.

I have lost 6 pounds since this started (every cloud has it's silver lining ) I can't eat, I can't sleep and I feel wretched. At this rate, I'll be a basket case in no time.

Well, things have deteriorated again. I have discovered that this very issue was one of the things that led to the demise of the 6 year relationship that he had before he met me and after his divorce. Apparently she caught him corresponding with his wife via e-mail. So much for what he led me to believe--that it was never an issue with his previous gf and that he hasn't had any contact with his wife since the divorce was final. A mutual aquaintance confirmed that he had also told them he still has feelings for his wife. One lie leads to another, and another, and another.

From my very limited observation of your situation Cinnamon, it looks to me as if your guy is still carrying a torch for his ex. Perhaps that is understandable. He was in love with her enough at one time to be married to her. It just looks to me like you are there if and when he needs you.

What sort of answer would you get if you asked him to commit fully to you, or walk away from your relationship? Based on his behavior so far, I think that's a reasonable request on you part.

I truly feel for you. I don't suppose it helps much, but know there are plenty of others (me included) struggling in our own relationships every day. I can honestly say that I can sympathize with your plight.

Stay strong!

Firstly, I doubt if he would make any more commitment to me than is already in place--that vague "vow taken in my heart" routine which IMO is something concocted to placate me. He has come up with too many excuses and too many contradictions for me to buy it. He would most likely tell me to take a walk and then lay a guilt trip on me for not loving him or trusting him enough, yada yada. Been there and done that one a long time ago and I know that it is little more than a method of distracting someone from the real issue of who is truly the guilty party. Even if he did come up to scratch, I would not feel comfortable about having forced the issue and I feel that it would breed resentment. "You made me..."yet another guilt trip. Tickets, anyone?

I have been doing a fair bit of thinking over the last two and you know, if he hasn't let go after 9 years, he isn't going to--at least, not for me. He has had plenty of time now to come to terms with things and there is just no going there.

He told a mutual friend that he still had feelings for his ex (ironically, the same night he spilled the beans to me) and that he had really hurt me badly over it. His buddy asked him "what did you expect?" He can't believe that he is still hanging on after all this time and especially after ruining one relationship with this problem.

Anyway, while his buddy thinks that I should confront him and make some demands, I feel that I should just leave. I wish that it were different, that I thought that something would change, but we have been going around in circles for over a year now and he [u]will not[/u] address the issue, he is still pretending that nothing is wrong and that he is not hanging on to her presence in this house and thus, in his life.

He has told his two best friends that I am the best thing that has ever happened to him, I am his friend and his lover and pure gold and at least one of them has told me that he envies our relationship. Why would someone want to throw this away?

Cinnamon,

Since you tried to help me I thought I would return the favor... My guess is that his idea of a relationship has changed. I know after being separated for two years I knew in my heart I would never marry again. I knew that if my current marriage did not survive the separation that I would like to find a companion but that companion would have to be an equal and their own person not a spouse.

Maybe he is that way. He wants you to be there because you want to be there and not because of a piece of paper or a vow that you have learned to regret. I could understand that.

Just some thoughts,

TEXASMAN

Sorry I don't have the time to read this entire thread, but I'm surprised as hell that you haven't called it off. Obviously this guy and you have a strong bond.

But his inabilty to resolve this issue indicates he's still pretty immature at least in tht respect. Just because we get old doesn't mean that we mature.

It's waaaayyyyyyy too long for him to still carry a torch for her, the Christmas thing is too murky. You don't desreve to be put through all of this.

He's NEVER going to give her up. If you don't mind living with her shadow, carry on. Otherwise, move on.

I know this is totally off-subject, but I'm coming from a female and talking to a female. I'm not sure what advice to give you on what your husband is talking about, but I can tell you that I myself just suffered an affair recently, (on my part not his) and it had nothing to do with me not loving him, but it had everything to do with me feeling like I wasn't appreciated and that this other random guy appreciated me more and whispered sweet NOTHINGS in my ear and made me feel cozy. Well needless to say I confessed and we've been rebuilding our marriage since then, but I realized, what am I doing to keep my husband? I'm sitting here whining about not getting attention from him, but what am I doing for him to keep him? I highly recommend that you read the book that I'm reading right now and it's called "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" by Dr Laura Schlessinger. It will change your life and your husband's mind if he has any doubts, which trust me, he doesn't. The grass is not greener on the other side, coming from someone that knows better.

Well, you are right about it being off topic. I’m not sure how your post is relevant. Glad to hear that you are enjoying the book. However, I don’t think that the issue here is my doing more or doing better for someone. Nor is it about more sex (it’s me who wants more) more guy time, or any of the usual issues. It is not about me not lying around the house being slovenly. I work full time, I look after my appearance, I go to the gym 3 times a week, wear makeup, style my hair, and dress nicely. I cook and I clean and I make time for fun. Our relationship is very balanced. We have our things that we do together and our time apart and we are cool with this. While we agree on the majority of issues, those that we disagree on (for the most part) are minor and things that we can just agree to disagree on.

Sounds nearly perfect, doesn’t it? Well, I thought it was and I was pretty happy. And then he brought his wife out of the past and placed her squarely between us. I can’t get away from my gut feelings on the subject. It’s pretty hard to pooh-pooh away a flat statement, though he can’t see why not. However, I feel like I am in a threesome and I confess that I am afraid to risk committing 100% in this relationship under these circumstances. What I don’t understand are the inconsistencies that I am hearing/seeing and the result is that I am questioning what is the truth and what is not. Once doubt is introduced, you begin to question everything and trust is very hard to regain. And once a threesome is established, comparisons are inevitable. I don’t want to rehash all of the rest of the posts on this subject as anyone who wants to bother can go back and reread it.

I really believe that the main problem that we have in relationships today is the mindset. It is absolutely essential that the mindset of both parties be that the couple is a single entity. Us, we, not me and then you, and certainly not ex-wives, in-laws and out-laws, friends and various and sundry outsiders. Yes, you are individuals, but you are part of a team and need to behave as such. Unfortunately, the current trend is to do the opposite.

Hi Texasman:

In my situation, marriage is really not the issue, though I suppose that it could seem that way. To be quite truthful, I am not ready to remarry at this point and probably won’t be for a while yet. In fact, I may never reach that point but I will not lock the door on the possibility. However, wouldn’t you feel kind of insulted (for lack of a better word) if you were informed a couple of years into a relationship (before you were even thinking in terms of marriage) that, while the plan was for the relationship to be permanent, you would not even be considered for marriage, that it was completely out of the question? You can’t help but wonder to yourself “What is wrong with me?” To make things even more uncomfortable, he wants to call me his wife. This creates endless confusion and embarrassment because inevitably, I am then asked when we got married or how long we have been married.

The thing is that I feel that his flat refusal to even consider marriage at any point in the future to be linked directly to his issues/feelings for his ex-wife. For whatever reason, these seem to have surfaced with me in a big way. He seriously considered marriage to the woman he spent 6 years with prior to me and nearly proposed to her more than once. As I stated before, I asked if this had been an issue with her and he said that it wasn’t. I have since found out that this is not strictly true. An acquaintance of his told me that this had been a problem as she caught them corresponding by e-mail. When I asked about this, he said that it was letters and that it had been his wife who was writing to him, though he was answering the letters. He said that he wrote a letter asking his wife to stop and had his former girlfriend mail it herself for her peace of mind and the letters stopped. The acquaintance also stated that it was this correspondence and his ongoing obsession that led to the demise of that relationship. Maybe, maybe not. His version is that it got to the point where he was low man on the totem pole—behind kids, mother, dog etc. My thought on that is, why did it get to that point? When issues arise in a relationship and are not resolved it often leads to resentment and then disrespect. Particularly, when one partner refuses to make concessions or face issues. In the case of that relationship, my guess would be that there were problems of that sort on both sides. Eventually, everyone is fed up. I do know that the marriage question was a thorn in the side in that relationship. Her comments were that she was good enough to shack up with, but not good enough to marry. Did she resent the fact that no proposal was forthcoming because she was really keen to get married or was it because he was still hung up on his wife?

I find it interesting that you do not consider a spouse an equal person. Why is that? I have, during my marriage, worked full time, contributing all of my pay, and looked after the household totally—including the yardwork and landscaping and a lot of indoor repairs such as painting, laying hardwood floors and a variety of other items. If that is not being an equal person, then what is? Even in my current relationship, I pay my own way and I look after 50% of all expenses. Unless you mean someone who has a completely separate life from you?

I can see your point wrt the staying because of a piece of paper and regretting the vows that were taken. However, the truth of the matter is that the vast majority of us still consider marriage a greater commitment than just sharing quarters. (I overheard a very interesting conversation at the gym one night on that subject.) And because we consider it a greater commitment, we will tend to work harder at it. This can work for us or against us. In the long run, if someone wants out, wants to cheat, or whatever, the piece of paper will not make a difference. But the lack of one makes it vastly easier to walk away.

Cinnamon,

Please excuse my poor use of the English language, I did not mean to imply that a spouse was not an equal. What I was trying to say is that if things changed the next relationship would have to be one of equals who both want to be there but have the option to not be there. I know it is hard to explain.

I guess it stems from my current marriage where I am the only bread winner and now that the children are gone she feels like she can't contribute. At the same time she doesn't want to pick up the responsibilities you seem to have. I feel like I am caught in a no win here.

I have met several independent women like you, and I think if there is a next one it will have to be one like you.

Peace,

Tex

Cin,
As time goes by, it's very easy to gloss over the bad things, and only remember how much hotter/whatever that crazyb*tch was than your current girl.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong w/ you. Just that we/I are guilty of this. And perhaps you'd knock those memories out of his head if you make sure you've addressed anything about yourself that might be lacking. And if you have to get in shape/put on a hot dress/give him a lapdance, then do it.
He should then agree to purge the house/mind of memorabilia.
Best,
S.

Hi Uncle Stan:

Just so you know, his amour from the 6 years previous to me was all of 5'3" and took a man's size XXL. In short, she was a slob, both personally, in the housekeeping realm and most areas of her life.

As far as sexuality goes, I am the one who wants more. But I have been warned not to be demanding in that department as his wife was and he says that he felt like a robot.

If you refer back to one of my previous posts, I go to the gym, I make the best of my appearance, and so on. He has confided that he is the envy of more than a few of his aquaintances and some of those people have told me so themselves.

The only thing that I am careful not to be is a bitch. I try to be reasonable, view things from others perspectives and to be calm. However, it seems that is the very thing that makes me easy to forget about. They say that nice guys finish last--well, so do nice girls, I guess. Whatever it is that he wants, I am pretty sure it isn't me.

Hi Tex:
No worries. I rather thought that it was something like that. I can relate to the no-win feeling and when someone complains about a problem but refuses to take steps to resolve it, it is more than a little frustrating. I detest it when people just wallow.

How is your summer going?

Cinnamon