Ok guys, help me out here.

On the weekend, my guy got blitzed and in the process of giving a speech on people who cheat on their significant others and how he never had, declared his undying love for his ex-wife. They have been divorced for 8 years. He was in another relationship since that and we met after that one ended. We have been together nearly 2 years. I can't say that I didn't suspect as at the 1 year point, he began to reminise alot about his ex-wife (almost daily.) He seldom mentions the 6 year relationship after his marriage was over. Being, ahem, beyond the emotional hysterics of the teens and 20's, I did not get bent out of shape about this. But there were enough little red flags to make me wonder--tone of voice, choice of topic (their honeymoon??!! for example)and inviting her grown daughter to our house for dinner several times and you can guess the content of conversation.

My question is how seriously should I take this? He denies any feelings for his ex and says that he will never revisit that relationship. I can believe that (I think) since I would qualify the relationship as toxic. Most of his reminising has been on the mushy side, but he has dropped enough of the negative over the course of our time togher to make me wonder why in the world he married her. So why does he seem to be hanging on to this emotionally? Or is he finally working it out? I am trying to figure out where I go from here. I would like to keep the wonderful relationship that we have had but am wondering if I can commit/invest to the point that I had previous to his bombshell.

Something smells wrong here...if someone mentions thier ex-wife, ex-girlfriend or ex-anything on a daily basis that ended 8 years ago it says to me that there is a problem.

I can fully appreciate him wanting to be respectful and not wanting to denegrate his ex-wife, especially in front of their child. But this sounds like it goes beyond that.

He says that he does not have feelings for his ex-wife and does not want to "revisit" the relationship - but he does...alot. Clearly, I don't know either of you, but it sounds as if he some serious issues that he needs to work out. Perhaps you can suggest some counseling. If I were you, alarm bells would be going inside my head and I'd be looking somewhere else.

Thanks, I thought maybe I was over-reacting. When I expressed my discomfort with his constant relating stories pertaining to his marriage, he did make a concerted effort to stop. He claimed that he was only trying to explain why he felt certain ways, but the stories seldom had much (if anything) to do with an explanation of his reactions or feelings and one thing that I found offensive about them is that they often dealt with having sex with her in some way. Just about the time I began to relax, he dropped this one on me.

Personally, the only feeling I have left for my ex is irritation. He could drop off of the earth and all I would feel is relief. So I found it difficult to understand how this woman could figure so much in my guy's everyday life (after being gone for 8+ years)--he obviously still thinks about her alot! And yet he denies that he is still emotionally involved. IMO, the talking part stopped, but the thought process is still very much there.

In the time that I have known him, I have come to the conclusion that he has a very soft side that he has difficulty dealing with. My guess would be that he finds emotional things so painful that he stashes them away and buries himself in work and hobbies. The feelings never get dealt with, never go away and then they ooze out when you're not looking.

BTW, this was not their child that he invited to our house. It was her grown daughter from her previous marriage. I would not normally have any issues with this as he helped raise her for about 10 years. They were married for 12. Interestingly enough, she (the ex) would not allow his daughter from a previous relationship to even visit their house.

I also believe that he recognizes that the relationship was toxic, with his head, at least. But I don't think that he ever went through the grieving process. I didn't mourn my ex in any way, but I went into my marriage with confidence, determination and the belief that marriage was for life. So when I finally gave up trying (and I tried everything!) I mourned the loss of the marriage. But that was all and while it took several months, once it was over, I never looked back. I'm not saying that I never recall anything, but I seldom mention those things even when they do come to mind. I have disposed of nearly everything that was aquired during my marriage, especially memorabilia. But he has still got alot of "her" things--some in use, some memorabilia tucked into albums and such, and also his wedding ring. Now, I recognize that not everyone is inclined to houseclean like I did. I also respect that this 12 years formed a substantial part of his life and that will not disappear. I just feel that this sort of hanging on is not healthy and I also feel like I am here by default and not by his choice. I guess that that is what sticks in my throat. It makes me question his commitment.

I would have to agree with Steve that your other has a some issues to resolve concerning his ex. I dealt with my issues 23 years ago, threw all the emotional and physical baggage out at that time and don't revisit that era at all. The fact that your other is dredging up memories on a daily basis tells me he isn't over her. I am not a shrink, just a common sense kinda person, but if he loves you why does he burden you with his ancient history? He can't change it, so why relive it? Learn from one's mistakes and move on.
I obviously can't tell you what to do, or if the relationship is worth staying in, but I would look at it very objectively and decide if he's a keeper. Just my $.02

Thanks Trainwreck. BTW, I like the name--it makes a statement, lol.

Well, here's where things are. We have touched on the subject a couple of times, under calm circumstances and well after the initial shock had worn off. At first, he did not know what to say. What [u]can[/u] you say after a revelation like that? Especially as he has no recollection of it. He still insists that he loves her but he is not "in love" with her. He says that what we have far surpasses anything else he has ever experienced and that he would never even consider returning to that relationship. This is, of course, pretty easy to state when there is little or no risk of this ever happening.
Face to face with it is usually another story. To give him credit, though, he is the sort who would recall the toxicity of the relationship and pass on it if he felt that nothing had changed. To some degree, it is a perverse part of human nature to be fascinated with something/someone who we know is not good for us.

She still comes up fairly often and part of me wonders if I should just let him talk it out. Like I said before, maybe he is working through it. I bought him a coaster for his coffee mug which reads "Honor the past, Live the present, Create the future." I feel that we need to replace those memories and there are signs that this may be happening--slowly. As I am the sort to "houseclean" and make a clean sweep of it, it's hard to understand someone who hangs on. I find it significant that he has kept so many things of hers since he detests clutter and regularly gets rid of useless items. (And believe me, some of it is pretty tacky--pink ruffled lace doilies! Ugh!)

As for me, well, I have given alot of thought to the whole picture. I agree with him that what we have far surpasses anything else I have ever experienced. He has significantly toned down the subject of his ex. The rest of the relationship is terrific. I figure that the odds of her showing up on our doorstep are pretty low. So we stand a good chance of making it. I think that I would rather have a relationship where we mesh perfectly 95% of the time as opposed to a relationship that was great maybe only 75% of the time. So, for now, I have decided to keep what I have and go with the flow. Maybe I am playing ostrich, but I have experienced enough of life to know that there is nothing perfect, so you take what is closest. It's a weird situation. We are strange creatures, aren't we?

He loves her, but isn't in love with her? After eight years? Maybe it's me, but why carry the emotional baggage this long. What did she do to him, or perhaps, what did he do to her that has him chained to the past? I have memories of relations past, but I don't torture myself or my wife with them. For his sake, he needs to turn the corner and get on with his life. He needs to throw out the physical minefield - the ring, the dollies, whatever else is around, those items are a physical presence of her that serve to enable him. Chains that bind, so to speak. Remember this, our memories can be selective and our words in the interest of self preservation. Alcohol tends to loosen one's inhibitions and supressed thoughts as we all know. I don't think you have your head in the sand by what you describe, btw, what does your best girlfriend think of this man? Best friends are a real good barometer and can be brutally honest when you need them to be, which is why they are your best friend.

My name is appropro for this particular time. The company I work for is closing my workplace, my wife has recently opened a business that is slowly finding its footing, our "baby" girl is starting college in August and my son departs for 16 months in Iraq in August. Life is interesting, no? I stand on my faith, it has brought me through the hell that I make for myself on this earth. Just remember to stay true to yourself and listen to that internal voice when it speaks to you. Long drives or walks by myself in a different locale help me sort the debris of life when it piles up on me. God bless.

Oh I can sooo relate. Life sure hands you some grenades doesn't it? After I left my ex, I had to go back to work (he had made me quit my job) and I got a wonderful job--it was easily the best job I ever had. Great boss, great people, good pay and benefits. That was March of 2004. By December 2004, it was all over. The parent company had sold that branch and the new owners were prepping us for resale to the competition. Since then, the well has been dry and I am considering retraining. This makes the current situation all the more difficult. However, I do have options.

Maybe I have bigger issues with the ex-wife than some would as I am not into hanging on to mementos of lost loves or much of anything else, to be truthful. I have a few things of my parents, mostly things of value or significance (my dad's dog tags from WW2 for instance.) So to me, hanging on to things that either belonged to or are closely related to your ex is significant. If it is unimportant or has negative vibes for me, I get rid of it.

when he ended the 6 year relationship between his marriage and us, they parted on fairly good terms. However he learned some things afterwards that made him bitter and angry and so there is nothing around that relates to her. So to me, there is obviously a difference in his feelings between that relationship and his marriage. I also agree that, since it lowers our inhibitions, alcohol acts like truth serum.

As for what they may have done to one another, he has told me some things that have made my jaw drop. She really had some warped attitudes along with being somewhat neurotic. I have no idea what he did to her, but from some of the things that he has said, he just got tired of trying to make her happy. I get the impression that she was never satisfied with anything for very long and was always looking for more. So when she announced after a trip home that she wanted a divorce, he didn't bother to fight her. Maybe he feels guilty about that.

There are times that I just want to tell him to get on with it. Go and see her if that's what you need to do. Either get her back or get over her. Like this afternoon when he was playing his favorite song--I sure am beginning to hate this one. It's "If I could turn back time" by Cher. But most of the time, I can just forget it and get on with life. At this point, it's just wait and see. If he can get past this thing with his ex maybe. If not, I will only tolerate it for so long and then I will call it quits.

Good for you, Cinnamon. In my opinion, it doesn't sound like your guy is, by any means, over his ex-. He "loves" her but isn't "in love with her"? What's that all about? In my experience, and not to sound like some sexist Neanderthal, men simply do not talk like that unless they're trying to pull the wool over one's eyes or rationalize something that they don't necessarily believe themselves. I think, from a rational/logical point of view, he can provide all the reasons that they aren't/weren't good for one another (it being a "toxic" relationship, and all) but that doesn't change the fact that, sometimes, the heart simply wants what it wants and that doesn't have to make any sense, whatsoever. That she was the one to call it quits, rather than him, could also be stinging him, sadly, even after all these years.... I hope it all works out for you, whichever way you want it to go.

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Thanks for your input. I started this thread because I was concerned that I might be seeing this from a totally female perspective and over-reacting. I don't completely trust my own judgment at this point--fallout from my marriage, lol.

Interestingly enough, I have found the men to be much less forgiving in the situation than women. My best friend is gay and his take on it is much like mine. He understands my apprehension but can't say that this is something that I should totally dump my guy for.

I have been wondering what it is about [u]this[/u] relationship that has brought this out. I didn't see any signs of unresolved emotions until I was involved with him for more than a year. I am reasonably sure that this was not an issue in the relationship that followed his divorce. She was sensitive in the extreme about just everything and he felt like he was always walking on eggshells. (When the first Christmas tree that they had decorated together fell over, she arrived on his doorstep so upset that he thought someone had died! 6 years? I can't imagine!) Is there something that has brought all these emotional entanglements to the forefront? I thought that perhaps he just felt comfortable talking about it with me, but he knows how I feel about having her stuff around and that him talking about her upsets me and still it doesn't stop. Much of the time now, he doesn't bring her up directly, but does it in a roundabout way by bringing up their pets, their house, their parties etc. Eventually, she enters the conversation.

I told him recently that I thought he should go see her. He refused, but I feel that this is out of fear. I think that he is afraid that he would lose all the way around--he would lose me and he wouldn't get her back. (She has been remarried and divorced twice since they were married which make a total of 4 marriages for her.) However, I feel that sometimes it isn't really the relationship that he is looking for, but the time. My mother went through a similar stage in her alzheimers. She was very restless and was always wanting to go somewhere. No place made her happy because what she was looking for was the past.

I wish he would go and see her. I think that it would provide him with some resolution, some closure. We tend to think that people we haven't seen for many years don't change. But lots of times when we finally meet them, they are strangers to us and nothing remains of what we once shared. Whether he would find himself still attracted to her or not is questionable but he might find that it would allow him to finally let go.

I don't think you've over-reacted, at all, in any of this and it sounds like you've been more than understanding and empathetic through it all. Like your friend, I don't think this is something you should necessarily be dumping your guy over. Ultimately, you'll have to decide for yourself when you've had enough and what you're willing to live with or not. That he keeps bringing her up though, directly or indirectly, even after you told him it upsets you, smacks of insensitivity. Your second-last paragraph could be bang on. Have you heard that Five-for-Fighting song, "100 years"? Maybe he's "heading into a crisis, chasing the years of [his] life..."

I think that you are right. We will either get through this once he winds down or if he never gets past his wife then at some point, I will hit the wall and that will be it. The sad part is that in many other ways he is a very sensitive person but he just doesn't seem to be able to stop this behaviour. I guess that is one of the biggest reasons that I find it so difficult to understand. He told me that he is aware that he is on strike 3 with me and he worries about it.

I can understand about the search for a particular time in your life. I think that I was the only one who understood what was going on with my mother. It happens to all of us in varying degrees. The hitch is, of course, that you can't recapture the past. Once my marriage was over, I wanted to go back to a time in my life when I enjoyed being single--when I was about 28-30. I knew that I couldn't relive this time, but I could create something similar for myself and so I set out to do that. If this is what is happening with him, I wish that I knew of a way to work with it.

You don't say how old your guy is, but based on your story I suspect that "middle aged" would be close enough.

I think that often when a man is at this point in life (I'm 47 myself) we start to look back and wonder about the paths we have taken, and what might have been if we had made other choices. Often, our past takes on a much different appearance in memory that it had in reality.

Your man obviously has some very fond memories with his ex, even though things didn't work out. At this point in looking back, he may be trying to hang on to something that reminds him of a younger time.

You have certainly been understanding and supportive, but I surely wouldn't take this lightly. You are wise to be concerned. Best wishes.

Thanks, you guys have been more than helpful. You are right on the ages--he is 49, I am 47. Here we are trying to rebuild our lives. Not much of a picnic at this stage of our lives. At this point, I feel that we should be able to relax and enjoy life and the fruits of our labour but it hasn't worked out quite the way either of us planned. At least he has a good, secure job and is planning to retire in about 3 years. My scenario is the opposite and I feel that it contributes to my overall feelings of apprehension. I am jobless with two kids and a mountain of debt courtesy of my ex and his many and varied "business" ventures--none of which could be classified as being successful. Since I am finding that I am not fully qualified anymore, I am considering going back to school. Scary thought.

When I faced the fact that my marriage was over, I spent a fair bit of time looking back and contemplating my choices. There are many changes that I would make. Career choices (apparently I should have been a civil engineer) and partner choices would have been radically different. However, as none of these things could be altered, I set my face firmly toward the future. Moaning about the past is a waste of time and I seldom reminisce unless it is about family and growing up. Even when something jogs my memory about a former flame, I avoid dragging it out and putting it on display for him. It is not necessary, there is no purpose for it. I could show him how it feels, but I don't think that it would be constructive. And besides, it's a rather immature response.

I think that you are correct about the memories appearing differently. He seems to have put his marriage on a bit of a pedestal. Now that my kids are grown sufficiently that babysitters aren't required, I'd like to go out more and have some fun and do some of the things that I did when I was younger, though a little more "toned down," lol. But there are alot of times that I get the feeling that he doesn't [u]want[/u] to replace any of those memories that he has with her. I am not asking him to forget that she ever existed, but I don't think that it is right to be constantly focused on her and thus maintain the freshness of the memories. So there are things that he avoids doing with me. Such as dancing--we both love to dance but we never go. He talks about it alot, but it ends there. We could be working through this together and enjoying it alot more, IMO.

In the process of trying to put my life back together, I really, really don't need to constantly be worrying about having the rug yanked out from under me.

I thought I would throw my two cents in. I would really think twice about putting a lot of emotional capital into this relationship unless he is willing to let go of his first wife. You will be playing second fiddle and won't get what you want out of a relationship.